A religious experience.
I was awakened at noon by my older brother tapping my back, and eventually my dog humping my arm.
Why?
Well, it wasn't out of boredom, maybe to see if I was alive, but the main intention being to drag me to church. My brother said please, and listed the benefits of going (we wouldn't have to sit down,stand up), and with my mumbling of how I couldn't because I had work to do (sleep), and then I thought about my brother sitting alone in church, after he just brought me up a cup of coffee, potentially being surrounded by old ladies (he's not into that) I decided to go.
I haven't been since easter.
No, I didn't go on easter.
Last Christmas.
I guess I was overdue? I guess I can't be overdue for something I don't believe, but I thought it might be interesting to see how another church was structured. We went to the rock in point loma, and it was much better than the stale church I used to go, where I would draw and count beads for entertainment.
And no Jeff, I didn't write things on my hand, I just I decided to listen what the pastor had to say.
But the church was huge and they had television screens to watch, so that was cool when you forget about the mans intensity.
Turns out there was a guest speaker, he had a hard life and had been SAVED. He did cool things like make pottery on the stage, eventually breaking it, creating something even better, because "that is what christ does to us." He started talking about how christ has a plan for our lives, even if we don't know what direction he takes us in. I say it was an excuse for him to make pottery, but his speech was believable. I thought it was cool he quit his well paying job to make pottery and eventually speaking places, I respect that, until he said he was working for God, which I don't agree with. He isn't giving any credit to himself, but rather some unknown superior being. I am interested in the people who call this intuition, or this innate voice in everyone to do what they want, God.
Right now my innate voice to quit is struggling with unfortunate practicalities.
Active Discussion
Chris Jack • December 6th 2009 • Reply
This is a good story.
It reminds me exactly how I feel about church. I used to go to Flood, which is a close "competitor" to the Rock. Some people would always say, "oh its just a show that they put on so they can appeal to younger kids and trick them into going," but honestly it was the only genuine church I had ever been to and I really miss going(run on sentence much?).
I know what you mean about the guy giving credit to God instead of himself, it can be a dangerous thing to become a religious to the point where you don't give yourself credit. The problem with these things are that people are either religious to the point of time consuming dedication or not religious at all; churches pressure you too much into becoming more dedicated. I personally believe that you shouldn't completely brush off his situation of working for God (I'm not saying you did), but instead take from it that there is some kind of innate voice inside of us that helps us with everyday life, some people call this voice God. In my opinion it doesn't matter what you call it as long as you use it to try and understand yourself better and become more of what you want to be as a person.
I feel the same as you, I get uncomfortable in church and it makes it hard to go, but I miss it because I can't deny that after I checked all my judgment at the door and just tried to apply people's stories to my life I have never felt more understanding and happy with my life.
Sorry Annie, this is not 100% directed at you are anything, I just liked that your brought up this topic and I wanted to share since I cant stand thinking about my finals coming up.
PS: I always hated sitting down and standing up just to feel like we wouldn't have to walk into the jaws of hell.
Annie! • December 7th 2009 • Reply
Thanks Chris!
Mostly I would hate going because I wanted to sleep instead, but then I didn't like going because I didn't believe. But that's good that you were able to throw judgment aside and try to apply it to yourself, I think I was too confused to do so.
One thing I do miss about going to church is the designated think space and time. But, my pastors were boring so, I don't know if I could get as much at the rock, or some other epic church.
ANND I agree with the insignificant title of the inner voice, as long as it is understood or attempted to be used.
Jeff Micklos • December 9th 2009 • Reply
The Rock holds a school, gift shop, cafeteria and coffee shop all in it’s 280,000 square foot building, which is the size of five football fields. There are six parking lots, which are moderated by attendants with orange vests, akin to a Disney Land or the state fair. For the far off lots, there are shuttles that will take you to the entryway, which The Rock says is the same size at Noah’s Ark. The architecture of the building is stunning and yet completely void of any obvious religious symbols. There is no stained glass or crosses adorning the walls, in order to find the hidden symbols, you must take the online symbolism tour, which shows you all 11 of the hidden symbols, such as the seats labeled as bible verses. Similarly to Flood, The Rock has it’s main Sunday sermons and a wealth of outreach groups and ministries. The outreach ministries bring likeminded people together, such as people who Quilt, 4x4 and Mime.
Flood is a Church located on the grounds of Kearny High School. The church currently has three Sunday services with an estimated 2,000 person following. Although the Sunday services are not regulated by age, they do target specific demographics for each time. The 10am and 5pm services are geared towards family where as the 7pm and 9pm services are for high school students and couples respectively. Aside from the Sunday gatherings, Flood has a number of “Community Groups” that meet at various times throughout the week. Some of these groups are divided by academic progress, such as High School, College and Post-College. There are also groups for men, which deal with “issues directly related to being a man.” A women’s group is also held in which they discuss relationships, body images and eating disorders. For singles, there is a group to meet other Floodians, because “no one can grow spiritually alone.”
The Rock and Flood are very similar in the ways they are ran; they give the audience what they want and not what they need. Congregates want to gather socially with likeminded people; they want to be a part of something.
Chris Jack • December 9th 2009 • Reply
What does this even mean?
Of course people gather together with like minded people to be a part of something. Who doesn't want to be a part of something?
They divide people into community group because whats the point of a learning group if everyone is at a different point in life. Like Joe said about his brother and his wife, they did the church marriage counseling and they found it very helpful.
The Sermons are all the same, they are not targeted at anyone, if you would ever go to one you could see that. That\'s why I liked Flood, there was no obligations, everything was open, if you thought there was something you needed help with, it was an easy place to find people.
Jeff Micklos • December 9th 2009 • Reply
Now now, Chris, I wasn't saying anything bad (with the exception of maybe one word). I think you just completely took it the wrong way. I did not say, "Look at all these groups. TAL LOCO, 'groups'!"
I am incredibly sorry that you saw the listing of groups and church specs to be so preposterous...
Chris Jack • December 9th 2009 • Reply
haha sorry, there is nothing wrong with the church specs that's why I said, "What does this even mean?" I still have no idea what your comment is about...
Jeff Micklos • December 9th 2009 • Reply
Ahh, good.
That is exactly what it was, just a little "About Me" blurb that the churches would have on their myspace or something...
See Chris, it is your picture that makes everything so mean. It yells, "Chris does not approve." But webtape is probably too broken to ever change it...
Chris Jack • December 9th 2009 • Reply
lol @ that
its the internetz fault
webtape r serious business, duh
Justin Newell • December 9th 2009 • Reply
It's very cool to hear about someone's experience at a church who doesn't usually go.
What the speaker mentioned about God having a plan for each of our lives is very true. It's also true that if we aren't close enough to God, we are capable of fooling ourselves into thinking something is God's plan when it isn't. After all, we're human. It takes faith to believe someone is really doing what they are called to and you believing him should show you that in this case, this man is probably following God's plan.
As far as the working for God thing and you not believing that, I can't understand. It does bug me when people don't take credit for things they do well, so I definitely agree with that. This man has practiced his pottery, he has perfected his craft. God may have called him to do this, but God has nothing to do with how much he decides to practice this ability, so I wanted to make that clear. You could even be "working for God," and be lazy at it. Those types of situations are the type where a hazy gray area can really affect the success of your "work."
To speak of the church in general, everyone who commented on this post really needs to understand how much today's church is failing in the way it's being run, compared to what The Bible has to say when dealing with church. Another point I should make is that every church you've ever been to was built by man. It was designed by man, and it's run by man. Of course there are going to be problems and of course there will always be things you don't like about any particular church. There are even things I don't like about my church, after all.
What you really need to see is that church isn't a standing symbol of Christ or what God wants Christians to be. It's not the church that is living, breathing and loving, it's the people in it. Whether or not a church's congregation decides to live their lives in accordance with what The Bible says will ultimately determine how others perceive it. What the church should be is something far beyond a building, so as far as that goes, you really don't have the right to judge a church based on how big or small it is. What's really important is what the church is doing for the un-churched. Whether it's loving the people around them in homeless outreach programs, or creating a safe place for youth to come be with friends, churches' main objective is to prove their faith in this "unknown superior being," because there isn't a person on earth who can say they don't need anymore love than they already have.
Check out Shane Claiborne, Annie. Here's an excellent article he did for Esquire that I think you'll find very interesting: http://www.esquire.com/features/best-and-brightest-2009/shane-claiborne-1209
I think you would love him. Also, check out "Un Christian," by David Kinnaman & Gabe Lyons.
gina • December 10th 2009 • Reply
What bothers me more than people not attributing their successes to their own personal strengths is when people "put things in God's hands." I suppose when there is LITERALLY nothing you can do about a situation, it's okay to leave it up to God. But when you have all the power in the world to change something or make something of yourself or act in a situation, it is NOT OKAY to let the powers that be work things out. I see it as laziness. And Christians are big on free-will, yes? So why give things up to God so quickly?
Chris Jack • December 10th 2009 • Reply
Gina, I have a good remedy for you, maybe you have heard it before.
There is a man in the middle of the ocean, almost out of strength. I boat comes by, the captain says he can pull him on board. The man says don't worry, God will help me. Two more boats come by and he tells them the same thing. Finally he dies and when in heaven he asks God, "Why didn't you save me?" God replies, "You moron, I sent 3 boats."
Nothing pisses me off more then hearing stories of how parents let their children die because they wont let them see a doctor and put it in Gods hands instead. You can still be free-willed and do good and you can give credit to God for helping you become that way, just don't blow things out of proportion.
Annie Szafranski • December 11th 2009 • Reply
Hey Justin! Thanks for the suggested reading, I will look into it once I no longer have to study for Finalllls ugh.
I think part of my problem with the church community was partially due to your comment about how the church is failing. I just thought everything was covered with fluff that didn't mean much when I was trying to find something. But when I used to go, I noticed how great the community was, especially the youth groups and their extreme friendliness..minus their cliques ranked on how religious one was.
Justin Newell • December 12th 2009 • Reply
@Chris. Dude, that isn't Christianity. That's what cults do. That's how Bob Marley died.
@Gina. You're exactly right and people who don't take action and just pray for a miracle are very stupid.